Vandal-proof tee signs?

[Jebb]

Hey guys, my first post here :eek:

I just got into disc golf a couple weeks ago and have played pretty much every day at George Ward since starting. One thing I've noticed is that people love to vandalize the tee markers. Just wondering if anyone had floated the idea of making them out of a thick sheet aluminum and having the images laser engraved on the face? I've been checking into the cost of such a thing and the engraving isnt that expensive (less than a buck per square inch). A 4x8 sheet of 3/4" aluminum might just be pricey though...

Anyhow, I'd be more than happy to donate $100-$125 to jumpstart such a cause unless there's good reason why the signs should remain as-is (wooden). I know all the upkeep after vandalism has to get old, so the industrial designer in me would love to see a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" aluminum cut into 24 signs, laser engraved, and tack-welded onto beefy aluminum poles concreted into the ground...almost vandal-proof!

total freak of a first post eh? :D

["Tiger"]

lol, I like where your head is at :cool:

[Justin L]

Jebb....first off, glad to have you here. Hearing from new players rocks.

Those are some great ideas for tee signs. I think alot of the reason for the (recent) neglect at George Ward is because all our time (and money) is going to Trussville right now. Maybe the tournament this fall will generate some interest in getting those things prepared around G.W.

You should come out and check out doubles sometime. Playing with other players (especially the pro's, haha) made me a _much_ better player when i was starting!

[Ben Morgan]

This may sound strange, but I have some contacts in the aluminum industry. There's a possibility that I could get the materials for a low price. No promises, but it's something I could check into if I could view the specs for a well designed project. Other than that, there's a group that advertises custom-made hole diagrams in Disc Golf Magazine. That may be the simplest solution. I would donate for that as well.

Trussville seems to be coming along. You guys are doing great things out there!

[Jebb]

cool deal - I'd certainly like to find out more about getting 3/4" or even 1" thick sheet aluminum and the costs - I'll keep checking this thread to see what you find out Ben.

I actually skipped out on playing this afternoon, over-extended my elbow down on hole 9 :( Perhaps tomorrow after work. I do know that Friday I will be introducing a buddy from Montgomery to his first game.

[Justin L]

Interesting Ben, thanks for posting up.

Maybe we can get up a bulk order and get GW and Civitan at the same time. They both need them.

Keep us informed with anything you come up with!

[ditchell]

i can help out with the designing part

[Justin L]

Yeah Chris....I meant to ask you the other day. I know you work with a TV station, what is it you do? We could always use a good graphics guy... :)

[Putts With A Fist]

Not to say it wouldn't be awesome and look great but as the old saying goes, "Build a bench/sign/pad at George Ward Park and someone will find out how to make love on it"...
;)

[Hilltopper]

Not to say it wouldn't be awesome and look great but as the old saying goes, "Build a bench/sign/pad at George Ward Park and someone will find out how to make love on it"...
;)

Is that before or after they barbeque on it? :D

[Ben Morgan]

Just to be sure that I have this right, what's needed (or hoped for) is 18 (or 24?) pieces of 3/4" aluminum measuring 4x8" each. Is this what you had in mind?

[ditchell]

justin,

i'm the art director at cbs42. mostly commercials and graphics/animations for news and image spots, but occasionally i do some print.

if anyone has a neilsen box, for the love of god put our station on especially during feb, may, july, november. the rest of the time i wouldn't suggest you watch.

[MAJ DG]

Ben,
If I'm not mistaken, Jebb is envisioning tee signs cut from a 4 ft x 8 ft sheet of aluminum that is 3/4" thick. And if this is correct, the dimensions of each individual sign, if cut from a 4 ft x 8 ft sheet of aluminum, should be approximately 10" wide x 16" tall (allowing for a minor amount of waste). We could therefore get 27 tee signs from a single sheet. imho, 3/4" thick may be a little extravagant, if we were to go with 1/2" thick, we could save 33% of the material cost.

Jebb, correct me if I'm wrong about your proposal.

[Tim Keith]

Say you get the tee signs engraved, what are you going to do when the vandals take something and start scratching and scraping on what you spent all that money on getting ingraved, a useless piece of aluminum! just my thought.

p.s. not knocking the idea just looking at it from a different angle.

TK

[Parkntwoputt]

Perhaps with the future potential income from the bag tag sales in 2007, the proceeds could be used to purchase new tee signs for Olde George Ward. (you have no idea how great GW is, when all you have is 150ft pitch and putt around you:( ).

What about the standard aluminum tee signs that are around all other courses? Like mentioned above they are advertised in Disc Golf World Magazine. They look cheap and generic, but they do a very good job and are fully customize-able.

Plus in the mind of a vandal, they typically are not attracted to everyday ordinary objects, if something blends in and looks boring they will typically leave them alone.

Just a thought.

["Tiger"]

honestly if you're worried about vandals you may as well not ever put up anything. S**t happens, people will destroy stuff cause they want, but if you want it there you just have to make the investment and hope for the best.

[Ben Morgan]

Being Father's Day, I had some time to discuss this project with my dad, who worked as the purchasing manager for an aluminum foundry for many years. He believes that a substantial cost savings (read: hundreds) can be achieved by using 16 gauge (1/16") sheet iron rather than aluminum. He explained that this would have sufficient durability if a coat of either Rustoleum or De-Rust-O primer is applied prior to painting. He referred us to a guy named Louis Luthcke (sp?), who is the proprietor of L&L Metal Fabricating in Woodlawn. He recommended that we provide Louis with a sketch of what we're looking for and Louis could obtain the materials, cut it to the desired dimensions and drill any necessary holes. I hope this is at least marginally helpful.

"My old man is a television repairman. He's got this ultimate set of tools." Jeff Spicoli (Fast Times at Ridgemont High)

[Jebb]

My thoughts on engraved aluminum were from the standpoint of a zero-maintenance outlook. Of course, there will still be the wiseass who thinks it funny to try and deface even such a well-designed thing but the beauty of thick sheet aluminum is how easily it cleans and polishes.

I tend to think anything made of corrosive or oxidative metal will only have to be replaced inside of 3-5 years if not sooner.

Upon further thought also, we could easily achieve this with a half sheet of 3/4" or 1" sheet aluminum (4ft by 4ft). I still have not priced this out though - if anyone can give some insight into this I could start to draw up some concepts with costs and all.

[Ben Morgan]

After making a few calls, it appears that a 4'x8' sheet 3/4" aluminum will cost $1,700. A 4'x8' sheet of 16 gauge iron will cost $49. A primer coat of Rustoleum or DeRustO will prevent premature corrosion on the iron. The drawback, as you suggest, is that iron will necessitate a periodic reapplication of paint (both primer and the hole diagram).

The other solution suggested in this thread is the use DGA signs. These cost $80 each (24 signs = $1,920). You can look at these at http://www.discgolfassoc.com/signs.html.

I hope the information is useful.

[drdisc]

Maybe the aluminum signs could be attached to the wooden posts.?
Richard and/or Bill have the original sign designs.
An easy way to mark them would be distance in feet only for the A,B, C, placements.
BTW, some players ran across a very gnarly scene in the pavallion, and when he went in to get his bad shot, they didn't even stop.!
________
VAPORIZERS INFO (http://johan-luis.tumblr.com/)

[Jebb]

After making a few calls, it appears that a 4'x8' sheet 3/4" aluminum will cost $1,700.
Interesting, so a half sheet 4'x4' which would still provide 24 signs (8 inches by 12 inches each) would be roughly $850. I bet we could even slim that sheet size down even more because individual signs roughly the size of a sheet of typing paper still seems overly large.

If we could get a partial sheet at 36" x 32" that would make 24 signs @ 6" x 8" each. Perfect size and more vandal proof since less surface area provides less torque ;)

Ben, could you look into partial sheet price or hook me up with the phone numbers you have so far?

The engraving directly into the aluminum shouldn't be more than $200-300, the aluminum poles another couple hundred tops.

I'm seeing this still come out cheaper and lasting a LOT longer than what is currently being sold out there. Hell, if these come to fruition maybe we could market them to other courses and use a percentage of the profit for our local area courses :)

[Ben Morgan]

The price quote came from BESCO STEEL SUPPLY @ Tel: 591-2540. You can find some others by looking in the Yellow Pages under Steel Distributors & Warehouses.

The 4' x 4' x 3/4" would be more than half of the 4' x 8' sheet as there would be a cutting charge. Just call and check.

Depending on where the funds are coming from (or, regardless, as they're all finite), you may want to reconsider the iron option. One well applied application of primer/hole diagram paint should last five, maybe ten years under normal circumstances. You could buy three or four replacement signs at the point of original purchase and still come out ahead. Aluminum would be cool, but you'd have a lot to lose in the event of vandalism.